At what point was it clear to you MacPhail was not "the guy?"

[JTrea81]

I was just curious when some reached their breaking point with Andy MacPhail (for those that have of course).

Mine's easy as most everybody knows the Tex fiasco pretty much sealed it for me as it did for others, but a very small group knew it from the beginning, while others seem to have had this year's results finally be the last straw.

So when did you determine that he's not the guy and needed to be replaced?

What was that move or non-move that did it or was it just a combination of things?

[El Gordo]

As long as PA owns the team there can be no "guy".

[Sports Guy]

I started to have my doubts when he went a year in between the Bedard deal and the Pie trade/Nick extension time period without doing anything to help the team in any kind of significant way.

People bashed me for saying that but you just can't go that long without making major improvements on a crappy team.

[turtlebowl]

I still think at the time he was the best man for the job. Angelos had never really turned the keys over to the team to a GM in quite a long time. At least with MacPhail I believe he had most of the say in what was going on with the team. If I have a choice of a figurehead GM that really has no say and has to get everything approved through Angelos and a GM that has experience and the trust of the owner I will take the second scenario every time.

The problem stems from having a GM that is very conservative and a team that is in need of an out of the box thinker. I am just not sure our owner is going to trust any other individual to come in and make bold moves.

This is why we all can sit here and complain about Macphail but the alternative may be much worse.

[Woody Held]

As long as PA owns the team there can be no "guy".

Unfortunately this is true. PA will not give any GM the complete control that is required to turn this system around.

[LookitsPuck]

When he signed Atkins.

[csgordos]

When he noted that we are not aggressively, or even to the same level as our competition, pursuing International talent. Combined with not being able to develop talent that was drafted. Could he still turn it around? Only if the big three young pitchers become a force next year and we acquire at least 1 impact bat. Too many what ifs.

[Mizerooskie]

Such a silly conclusion. As was said, there's no way to tell whether he's 'the guy' or not so long as PA is in charge.

[waroriole]

When he noted that we are not aggressively, or even to the same level as our competition, pursuing International talent. Combined with not being able to develop talent that was drafted. Could he still turn it around? Only if the big three young pitchers become a force next year and we acquire at least 1 impact bat. Too many what ifs.

Same here.

[Sports Guy]

Such a silly conclusion. As was said, there's no way to tell whether he's 'the guy' or not so long as PA is in charge.

I agree with this...but I think there are certain things that get done that has nothing to do with PA.

Hard for me to believe that PA even knew who Atkins, Gregg and Gonzalez were, much less telling AM to sign them.

[Austin]

If the last few years have taught me anything it's that we will never win with Angelos. MacPhail wasn't spectacular by any means but I don't particularly think there was any man who could have gotten the job done with Pete still calling the shots.

[Mizerooskie]

I agree with this...but I think there are certain things that get done that has nothing to do with PA.

Hard for me to believe that PA even knew who Atkins, Gregg and Gonzalez were, much less telling AM to sign them.

True that he likely doesn't know who these specific players are, but if AM is given the directive to add veterans at positions of weakness, and a limited budget to do so, there are only so many directions he can go in.

[Tony-OH]

I started to have my doubts when he went a year in between the Bedard deal and the Pie trade/Nick extension time period without doing anything to help the team in any kind of significant way.

People bashed me for saying that but you just can't go that long without making major improvements on a crappy team.

This was when I started to have my concerns as well.

[Enjoy Terror]

It was the international spending quote that really turned me from apologist to knowing he isn't the guy. However, I became an apologist during the Tex deal. I think prior to that I thought he was doing okay.

[wildcard]

I am not sure that MacPhail is not "the guy".

I think Connor messed up the pitching staff. He is clearly Buck's problem.

I think injuries have been a problem and if MacPhail is held to a budget by PA their may not be enough money to get the kind of backup players that Boston or New York would have. So is it MacPhail's fault that the budget has to balance with revenues. The responsible lies somewhere between PA and MacPhail but I don't know where. I doubt that changing GM's helps that problem and could make it worse if PA ends up not trusting the new GM.

Non performance of the FA's. Yes, MacPhail has a responsible here, but when 72% of the Hangout think he did a good job this winter it hard to say he picked the wrong players and have any credibility in making the comment.

I'd like to see a better solution, but change or the sake of change does appear to be the right move.